For any who don't know (but, really, you all should at this point), I enjoy debate. I like to talk about controversial subjects that most other people shy away from. I have a lot of opinions on various topics and, in addition to sharing them with others, I like to hear what opinions other people have on these issues. I think that I kind of take it for granted that 1) everyone else has an opinion on whatever I want to talk about and 2) that everyone I talk to on even a semi-regular basis has the capacity to handle any subject in a mature manner.
This is not always the case, unfortunately. Occasionally I drastically underestimate the capacity for humans to be snarky and/or generally horrid to other humans of differing opinions. Yet I still feel, deep down, that somehow if you just talk to each other there has to be a way to come to a place where you can both, if not agree, at least respect each other's opinions enough to not be jerks about it.
The worst examples of this are always the most quiet and insidious. Bring up religion in a group of normally intelligent, rational and mature people and you aren't likely to get the screaming "My God is better than your God!" kind of interaction - the people I'm talking about would find it abominably rude to behave in such a manner in any kind of public setting - but you are likely to get the snarky, back-handed kind of comments that are, in their own way, worse than if they actually started screaming at you. At least, if they're yelling, you can feel justified yelling back.
Here's a key example, and one that gets under my skin on a semi-regular basis: intolerant Atheists. To me, Atheism is a belief structure that fills the same fundamental building block of a person's core personality and world view as any religion. I have quite a few friends that are Atheist and we get along well 99% of the time. The other 1% of the time is when they begin to make snarky comments about religion. Now, I understand the frustration of being a minority in terms of your personal beliefs - I'm Wiccan and if you don't think that I've had to deal with persecution from people of other beliefs, there's some news stories you should read - but I don't feel that that gives you the right to turn all of that frustration into hate and direct it back at the world. I especially think that it's pretty awful when I hear people lumping all religions together and assuming that the sins of one group automatically should be applied to all. Heck, I don't even think it's appropriate for the sins (I'm use this term more secularly, by the way - feel free to replace it with "wrong-doings" if you feel that's more appropriate) of individuals to be counted against any group they are associated with. Just because someone wronged you and they happen to be a Christian does not mean all Christians have wronged you.
The instances I'm talking about usually go something like this - you're having a discussion in which religion happens to either be originally a component or later gets mentioned. Let's go ahead and take Creationism being taught in schools as our example (since a friend and I actually had this conversation and it went something like this). The two people are talking and both are actually against teaching Creationism. Each side sites reasons such as that Science is a specific thing based on specific principles and things which are not Science shouldn't be taught in Science class; that it is a public school system and as such should not be teaching anything remotely resembling religion per the Constitution's separation of Church and State; and that there is already too much information to be covered in the classroom as is, without adding anything to it that will detract time from the topics that actually need to be covered. Then the theist in our conversation says something like "Besides, even if they were going to teach Creationism, which Creation would they use? There are so many religions out there - each with their own version - that even if none of the other arguments were true they still wouldn't be able to teach it because they couldn't agree on which version to teach!" Now, remember, both sides have been in complete agreement on the issue up until this point. The atheist in our example replies with "Well, it wouldn't matter what version they chose since it's all made-up fairy tales anyway."
*blink*blink*
This is the kind of thing I'm talking about inciting a certain amount of anger in me. This conversation (a version of it anyway) actually happened between me and a friend. The friend is an extremely intelligent person who is generally very good at being understanding and open-minded. This friend knew that I was religious. We weren't even arguing, we were merely discussing a topic on which we both actually agreed! And yet said friend felt the need to shove in a snarky comment lumping all religions together and saying how they were all not real anyway.
The worst part of this whole thing, I think, is the casual level of hate and intolerance that is illuminated by this kind of behavior. Like I said earlier, it's quiet and insidious. It is so pervasive in their world view that they just casually feel the need to insert it into any given conversation how little they respect religion. To me, this is just as bad as someone who feels the constant need to mention God (or their specific God or religion). I'm sure you know the type: you say "Wow, that's a short skirt on that girl" and they reply with "If she would find God, she wouldn't feel the need to display herself so wantonly!" Um... wait, what? Unwanted and unasked for religious comments that denounce other people's beliefs (or what you perceive their beliefs to be) are uncomfortable and annoying no matter where they come from. And, while many of the people who are intolerant can recognize the behavior in others and find it repugnant, they will continue to make their own snipes and jibes whenever the opportunity arises.
Another thing that gets under my skin is people who, during a political discussion, find their position untenable and choose to answer by nitpicking details that don't matter to the big picture. Yes, I have an example story of this as well.
This one takes place one Tuesday night/Wednesday morning in a Waffle House. One of the girls who comes to the club on Tuesday (and, afterwards, goes to get the Waffles!) brought along a guy friend of hers. Said friend was... eccentric, to put it mildly. He immediately exhibited the above-detailed atheist behavior (which was pretty weird and abrupt, considering we just met) and then launched into his diatribe against governments. Now, I have had similar talks with other people before and have heard a lot of the stances for anarchy. I suppose it was this guy's bad luck that he chose to spout rhetoric at someone who was prepared for him, but prepared I was. So he started in with the whole "taxes are people taking your money at gun point!" spiel and I kinda let him have it.
I took the stance of taxes being rent for the land that you are on. He said what gives the government the right? I replied they were here first, what gives anyone the right to property? So he finally ends up on the point of not being able to be on non-government owned land and therefore taxed. I replied with the options he actually did have. He could choose another government and move there, he could find a place unowned by a government (mostly uninhabitable, but with terraforming and a lot of money he could probably fix that) or he could get a boat and sail into international waters.
This is where he began to think he had won. He said he couldn't just sail in international waters because if you weren't flying a country's flag, you'd be fair game. Sadly, this is exactly where he actually began to lose, because I pointed out that yes - if you don't want to claim a country and thereby pay their taxes, you aren't entitled to their protection.
He replied to this by getting irate and screaming about how he wasn't the one who wanted to go on a boat and he wasn't talking about boats, I was talking about boats. Um... yes. In response to a statement that he made about there being no where without taxes. I pointed this out to him and he basically just threw his hands up in exasperation.
I hate this tactic. I hate when people are losing an argument or debate and they choose to get really angry as a response. If you don't like losing perhaps you should automatically back down from any debate and then think in your head about how you're the bigger person or something because you were so right but you didn't rub the other person's face in it or whatever you tell yourself so you can feel justified. Just please, please, don't scream at me because I pointed out the flaw in your logic. It's irritating. If you do find that you have slipped, gotten too emotional, and yelled at someone during an argument, at the very least apologize to them.
I think that these irritants are common to many people and that's why most people choose not to engage in certain discussions in "polite" company. That's fair, I suppose. Unfortunately for me, I enjoy these kinds of debates (when they don't dissolve into the above-mentioned irritations or all-out fights). I think that having debates about deeply held beliefs is the only way to really grow as a person. These beliefs form the foundation for your personality and the way you look at the world. So, if one is to grow as a person and not stagnate, one has to challenge these foundations occasionally. Generally speaking your beliefs in such things should be solid enough to withstand this type of debate and come through all the stronger for it. If not, then perhaps it is not the fault of the person you are talking to but more an indicator that you need to explore your beliefs a bit more extensively so that they are not as assailable.
I suppose what I would really like is for everyone, everywhere, to suddenly realize that being respectful of other people's beliefs isn't as simple as not actively bashing them. It's also requires that you be willing to listen and discuss said beliefs and how they differ from your own without resorting to anger or snide remarks. It requires that you take it on faith that discussing these things in a logical way with another individual is actually a good thing - a thing that can lead to personal growth - and therefor should be cherished and nurtured. I would like it if we could all just get along, even if that does sound pretty after-school-special-y. What can I say, in some ways I think I may secretly be an optimist.
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